Champion's League 18/19

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Penk!
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Re: Champion's League 18/19

Postby Penk! » 07 Mar 2019, 11:35

Diamond Dog wrote:
PENK wrote: I was really disinterested in the group stages this year but now the tournament feels like it's really come to life.


....is the precise definition of the Champions League, every season.

With a few very rare exceptions... the Group Stage is almost always a total farce, merely rubberstamping the 'elite' teams progress to the last 16.


Oh of course, but I was finding it hard to care at all this year until the surprise results this week. Real getting the boot makes a big difference and the absence of Neymar and quite possibly Ronaldo from the later stages is also a bonus.

Barcelona or City to win the thing though probably.
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Re: Champion's League 18/19

Postby Rorschach » 07 Mar 2019, 13:05

Darkness_Fish wrote:Shocking use of VAR, yet again. I guess next season the premier league will be decided on twatting the ball as hard as possible, in the hope it hits someone's arm.


I'm not sure how much VAR is to blame here. No-one seems to be clear as to what the rule is about handball in the penalty area. There've been a few cases this season where penalties have been given when many of us felt it was accidental and therefore not a foul. And the off-side rule is causing all sorts of problems too.
I reckon they need to sort out the rules so everyone knows what they are because there doesn't appear to be a consensus on some of them at the moment.


PENK wrote:
Barcelona or City to win the thing though probably.


I'd be quite surprised to see Barcelona win it. This year they've been very lucky in La Liga a few times and they seem very dependent on Messi; even more than usual. Of course, if he puts in enough of his best performances, anything's possible, but I think there are better teams around this year.
Bugger off.

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Re: Champion's League 18/19

Postby Darkness_Fish » 07 Mar 2019, 13:21

Rorschach wrote:
Darkness_Fish wrote:Shocking use of VAR, yet again. I guess next season the premier league will be decided on twatting the ball as hard as possible, in the hope it hits someone's arm.


I'm not sure how much VAR is to blame here. No-one seems to be clear as to what the rule is about handball in the penalty area. There've been a few cases this season where penalties have been given when many of us felt it was accidental and therefore not a foul.

I've said it many times, the handball rule as described in the laws of the game is fine. Why it isn't being implemented, that's what doesn't make sense.

VAR also isn't being implemented as advertised, as only "clear and obvious errors" should be overturned.
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Re: Champion's League 18/19

Postby borofan » 07 Mar 2019, 17:18

Darkness_Fish wrote:
Rorschach wrote:
Darkness_Fish wrote:Shocking use of VAR, yet again. I guess next season the premier league will be decided on twatting the ball as hard as possible, in the hope it hits someone's arm.


I'm not sure how much VAR is to blame here. No-one seems to be clear as to what the rule is about handball in the penalty area. There've been a few cases this season where penalties have been given when many of us felt it was accidental and therefore not a foul.

I've said it many times, the handball rule as described in the laws of the game is fine. Why it isn't being implemented, that's what doesn't make sense.

VAR also isn't being implemented as advertised, as only "clear and obvious errors" should be overturned.

A new version of the handball rule is being introduced next season. Something to do with 'natural silhouette'. As that pompous, sanctimonious prick David Elleray is the spokesman for the rules body, I have no doubt it will make things even worse...
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Re: Champion's League 18/19

Postby Diamond Dog » 07 Mar 2019, 18:35

I think the new handball rule from next year is straightforward for penalties - if you handle the ball in your own box (no matter what the circumstances) it's a penalty.

Also there will be no rebounds from penalties. If the ball doesn't go in directly, it's a goal kick I believe.
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Re: Champion's League 18/19

Postby Tomahawk Kid » 07 Mar 2019, 19:02

Puzzled by that VAR decision?


Image

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Re: Champion's League 18/19

Postby Darkness_Fish » 07 Mar 2019, 21:25

Diamond Dog wrote:I think the new handball rule from next year is straightforward for penalties - if you handle the ball in your own box (no matter what the circumstances) it's a penalty.

That can't be right, can it? That's exactly the 'twatting it at defenders' scenario.
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Re: Champion's League 18/19

Postby Diamond Dog » 07 Mar 2019, 21:30

Darkness_Fish wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:I think the new handball rule from next year is straightforward for penalties - if you handle the ball in your own box (no matter what the circumstances) it's a penalty.

That can't be right, can it? That's exactly the 'twatting it at defenders' scenario.


Yep!!
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Re: Champion's League 18/19

Postby Rorschach » 08 Mar 2019, 07:43

Darkness_Fish wrote:I've said it many times, the handball rule as described in the laws of the game is fine. Why it isn't being implemented, that's what doesn't make sense.

VAR also isn't being implemented as advertised, as only "clear and obvious errors" should be overturned.


The point I was making was that it seems to be being implemented differently from how it's currently written in the rules so people are confused about it. From what I've heard, they're basically just taking the word 'deliberately' out (on the day of the Champions League final) but referees often seem to be making their calls on that version already.
I guess the idea is to remove the subjectivity behind referees' decisions as to whether or not a handball was intentional. But, as you say, much twatting will ensue.
It's a shit idea and totally against 'the spirit of the game'.
Bugger off.

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Re: Champion's League 18/19

Postby Penk! » 08 Mar 2019, 08:38

Rorschach wrote:The point I was making was that it seems to be being implemented differently from how it's currently written in the rules so people are confused about it. From what I've heard, they're basically just taking the word 'deliberately' out (on the day of the Champions League final) but referees often seem to be making their calls on that version already.
I guess the idea is to remove the subjectivity behind referees' decisions as to whether or not a handball was intentional. But, as you say, much twatting will ensue.
It's a shit idea and totally against 'the spirit of the game'.


I think it's been the case for a long time that handballs are very unpredictable.

To be honest, drop below the top levels and you'll almost never see handball penalised as most refs aren't good enough to spot it or make the split-second decisions, so they miss it or ignore it.

I do actually think the law should be extended from merely "deliberate" handballs to any handball that gains the player an advantage, though the exceptions still need to be made for the ball striking a hand or arm that is placed across or by the body. If you shoot or cross and it hits a defender's arm and deflects away, that I think should be an indirect free kick. Penalties if it's judged to be deliberate. But again, it's very dependent on interpretation there.

Darkness_Fish wrote:VAR also isn't being implemented as advertised, as only "clear and obvious errors" should be overturned.


That's been the case since day one, hasn't it? In the World Cup we had the same thing with refs taking five minutes to look at footage. If it takes five minutes to make the decision it's not a bloody "clear and obvious" error is it? Clear and obvious is not spotting a guy who is two yards offside, not spotting Maradona or Henry's handballs.

My team Oldham have had one experience of VAR when we played at Fulham in the cup. Tom Cairney went flying in the box and the ref gave the penalty. It went to VAR and it was plain to see that Cairney had been seriously maimed by an Oldham player's stray shoelace. The officials allowed the decision to stand. So in that case was it because, the video showing that Cairney's leg had indeed been sliced off by a faint whisper of air, the error was not "clear and obvious"? Who the hell knows?

Mitrovic proceeded to miss the penalty and Oldham went right down the other end and scored the winner, so justice was done. But still.
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Re: Champion's League 18/19

Postby Darkness_Fish » 08 Mar 2019, 09:30


That's so bad it's almost convincing me of the worth of VAR. If you're only job is to clear up mistakes, how on earth would you keep your job after that kind of event?
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Re: Champion's League 18/19

Postby Penk! » 08 Mar 2019, 09:44

The best bit is when Cairney briefly stops rolling in agony to have a good look over at the ref to see if his antics have worked. So brazen!
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Re: Champion's League 18/19

Postby Rorschach » 08 Mar 2019, 12:53

PENK wrote:The best bit is when Cairney briefly stops rolling in agony to have a good look over at the ref to see if his antics have worked. So brazen!


I thought only foreigners did that sort of thing!
Bugger off.

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Re: Champion's League 18/19

Postby Penk! » 08 Mar 2019, 12:54

Rorschach wrote:
PENK wrote:The best bit is when Cairney briefly stops rolling in agony to have a good look over at the ref to see if his antics have worked. So brazen!


I thought only foreigners did that sort of thing!


Well he's Scottish, so...
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Re: Champion's League 18/19

Postby Darkness_Fish » 08 Mar 2019, 14:03

The worst kind of foreigner. So lazy, he can't even be bothered living far away.
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Re: Champion's League 18/19

Postby Diamond Dog » 14 Mar 2019, 10:06

I watched the Juve/Athletico game on Tuesday.... he may not be the favourite of many, but Ronaldo is a fucking beast.
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Re: Champion's League 18/19

Postby Penk! » 14 Mar 2019, 12:46

While I watched Barcelona-Lyon yesterday - Barca have a bloke who looks pretty handy too.
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Re: Champion's League 18/19

Postby The Modernist » 14 Mar 2019, 16:27

Diamond Dog wrote:I think the new handball rule from next year is straightforward for penalties - if you handle the ball in your own box (no matter what the circumstances) it's a penalty.
.


See I think that's too harsh. I don't think a team should be given a near guaranteed goal simply because the ball has bounced up and hit someone's hand in a way they can't avoid. I don't see why it's important to punish something like that. I'd rather live with a certain ambiguity in the rules.

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Re: Champion's League 18/19

Postby The Modernist » 14 Mar 2019, 16:30

And what are you gonna do when clever forwards start dinking the ball onto defenders arms? We'll start having four or five penalties a game. And they surely will start doing this as it's not that hard to do.

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Re: Champion's League 18/19

Postby Diamond Dog » 14 Mar 2019, 18:37

The Modernist wrote:And what are you gonna do when clever forwards start dinking the ball onto defenders arms? We'll start having four or five penalties a game. And they surely will start doing this as it's not that hard to do.


Precisely the point of my post G. Of course it will happen. Players won;t be looking to score from free kicks around the around the box- they'll just drill the ball at the nether regions of the wall, knowing a penalty was a certainty.
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