Graceland: Masterpiece, politically wrong or both?
- Spec
- Posts: 10387
- Joined: 20 Aug 2003, 11:58
- Location: UK
- Contact:
Graceland: Masterpiece, politically wrong or both?
Paul Simon's Graceland was released 30 years ago (August 1986)
How do you feel about the album and the politics around it? Do you still listen to it? What impact, if any, did it have on music and/or South Africa?
- Your Friendly Neighbourhood Postman
- Posts: 17966
- Joined: 17 Oct 2010, 14:10
- Location: Unrecognized Genius, Me.
Re: Graceland: Masterpiece, politically wrong or both?
It's a great album.
IIRC there was quite something to do about there being a cultural boycott against South-Africa at the time.
I think the arts should be clearly separated from (bad) ideologies.
I can find nothing whatsoever in this album that in any way supports a wrong attitude towards others; on the contrary, it's all about people of different colours coming together and making wonderful music.
As such, it is a firm statement that speaks against ugly beliefs and the acts that come with these.
Which somehow seems contradictory to my third sentence of this post.
So be it.
IIRC there was quite something to do about there being a cultural boycott against South-Africa at the time.
I think the arts should be clearly separated from (bad) ideologies.
I can find nothing whatsoever in this album that in any way supports a wrong attitude towards others; on the contrary, it's all about people of different colours coming together and making wonderful music.
As such, it is a firm statement that speaks against ugly beliefs and the acts that come with these.
Which somehow seems contradictory to my third sentence of this post.
So be it.
On the whole, I'd rather be in Wallenpaupack.
- clive gash
- wannabee enfant terrible
- Posts: 17219
- Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 00:32
- Location: down the rabbit hole
Re: Graceland: Masterpiece, politically wrong or both?
Boy in the Bubble is my jam.
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
Diamond Dog wrote:...it quite clearly hit the target with you and your nonce...
...a multitude of innuendo and hearsay...
...I'm producing facts here...
-
- Posts: 8751
- Joined: 04 May 2011, 02:57
Re: Graceland: Masterpiece, politically wrong or both?
Film about this very album and topic (a repeat?) on BBC4 tomorrow night
- NMB
- Posts: 4775
- Joined: 22 Jun 2005, 20:46
- Location: Darkest Surrey
Re: Graceland: Masterpiece, politically wrong or both?
It's a very fine album if not quite a masterpiece.
Should Paul Simon have broken the cultural boycott? Probably not. But the result of him doing so was pretty much positive all round, it benefited the careers of the musicians involved*, especially Ladysmith Black Mbazo who became (minor) world stars on the back of it, and it did at least bring apartheid back onto the agenda for the generally apolitical public. It also (slightly) raised the profile of African music, for my parents if nobody else.
* Los Lobos might argue with that, weren't there claims that he copped the songwriting credits for one of their songs?
I saw Paul Simon touring this album a few years back, I'm guessing it must have been for the 25th anniversary. It was a very good show.
Should Paul Simon have broken the cultural boycott? Probably not. But the result of him doing so was pretty much positive all round, it benefited the careers of the musicians involved*, especially Ladysmith Black Mbazo who became (minor) world stars on the back of it, and it did at least bring apartheid back onto the agenda for the generally apolitical public. It also (slightly) raised the profile of African music, for my parents if nobody else.
* Los Lobos might argue with that, weren't there claims that he copped the songwriting credits for one of their songs?
I saw Paul Simon touring this album a few years back, I'm guessing it must have been for the 25th anniversary. It was a very good show.
turn on, tune in, nod off
- naughty boy
- hounds people off the board
- Posts: 20252
- Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Re: Graceland: Masterpiece, politically wrong or both?
clive gash wrote:Boy in the Bubble is my jam.
Yeah, that's a great one.
I've never been convinced about the album as a whole, tho'. And of course the lead-off single was unforgivable dreck.
Matt 'interesting' Wilson wrote:So I went from looking at the "I'm a Man" riff, to showing how the rave up was popular for awhile.
-
- Posts: 16158
- Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 20:43
Re: Graceland: Masterpiece, politically wrong or both?
I was well into other African music at the time - King Sunny Ade, Orchestra Makassy, that sort of stuff so musically, it was nothing particularly exciting. Also, Lizzie Mecrier Descloux had made a similar, better album some time before Graceland but no one had noticed so there was no furore attached to that.
I do enjoy Graceland though and I still come back to it. I think Simon's heart was in the right place, although maybe not with Los Lobos. There was a great thread on here about that at one time.
I do enjoy Graceland though and I still come back to it. I think Simon's heart was in the right place, although maybe not with Los Lobos. There was a great thread on here about that at one time.
- Darkness_Fish
- Posts: 7793
- Joined: 27 Jul 2015, 09:58
Re: Graceland: Masterpiece, politically wrong or both?
I think there was a big difference between going to South Africa and recording an album with black African artists, and going breaking a boycott of South Africa to make shed-loads of money from concerts in Sun City, which only utter scum like Queen did. The boycott was meant to be there to help show the outrage and indignation the rest of the world had to the apartheid system, and raise awareness of that by depriving the general public of musical, sporting, and general cultural events.
I mean, it was probably fairly ignorant of him to go there and not expect there to be a fuss, but it's not in the same league. Did I mention that Queen are scum?
I mean, it was probably fairly ignorant of him to go there and not expect there to be a fuss, but it's not in the same league. Did I mention that Queen are scum?
Like fast-moving clouds casting shadows against a hillside, the melody-loop shuddered with a sense of the sublime, the awful unknowable majesty of the world.
- Count Machuki
- BCB Cup Champion 2013
- Posts: 39534
- Joined: 11 Jun 2005, 15:28
- Location: HAIL, ATLANTA!
Re: Graceland: Masterpiece, politically wrong or both?
Hang on, let me brew up some coffee.
Let U be the set of all united sets, K be the set of the kids and D be the set of things divided.
Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D
Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D
- Count Machuki
- BCB Cup Champion 2013
- Posts: 39534
- Joined: 11 Jun 2005, 15:28
- Location: HAIL, ATLANTA!
Re: Graceland: Masterpiece, politically wrong or both?
Paul Simon is not a chameleon, or even a magpie. He's a wet parrot. He's a cultural imperialist. He doesn't get it.
And Graceland is just a flowering of this. "Oh, really, I'm quite African now...check me out."
"Oh, I've been into zydeco since I was a kid. In New York."
"I feel like I've always been a reggae singer, so I bought Jimmy Cliff's band"
"I'm extremely South American now, so I'll translate this song and call it my own"
Fuck that. You don't just jump into something with no feel for it and claim it as your own. Cultural imperialism. How do we know he didn't do that in the early 60s? "I'm a folk singer, really, I am, check me out!" PEOPLE FELL FOR THIS SHIT.
GRACELAND
My mom wore out that tape. This is classic station wagon music. This record was a huge hit and still has a following among the functionally deaf and the hard of taste. And it's an affront to music. It's so completely permeated with funk fakery that it's a marvel there's anything left to hang a song on.
Did he write that fucking Los Lobos song? The hell he did. What the hell does he know from highlife? Did he hang with any of these musicians' families in Africa and get an idea about the country, or did he go from airport to studio to airport. Bet it was the latter.
And did he bother to hire anybody but the most famous? No sir. And were those business dealings up front? Fuck no they weren't.
How can you justify slap bass on a Paul "Fucking" Simon record? It's SO 80s, so bland, so processed.
I can't be doing with this record, or really, Paul Simon in general. Fuck sake, I haven't even had a coffee yet!
And Graceland is just a flowering of this. "Oh, really, I'm quite African now...check me out."
"Oh, I've been into zydeco since I was a kid. In New York."
"I feel like I've always been a reggae singer, so I bought Jimmy Cliff's band"
"I'm extremely South American now, so I'll translate this song and call it my own"
Fuck that. You don't just jump into something with no feel for it and claim it as your own. Cultural imperialism. How do we know he didn't do that in the early 60s? "I'm a folk singer, really, I am, check me out!" PEOPLE FELL FOR THIS SHIT.
GRACELAND
My mom wore out that tape. This is classic station wagon music. This record was a huge hit and still has a following among the functionally deaf and the hard of taste. And it's an affront to music. It's so completely permeated with funk fakery that it's a marvel there's anything left to hang a song on.
Did he write that fucking Los Lobos song? The hell he did. What the hell does he know from highlife? Did he hang with any of these musicians' families in Africa and get an idea about the country, or did he go from airport to studio to airport. Bet it was the latter.
And did he bother to hire anybody but the most famous? No sir. And were those business dealings up front? Fuck no they weren't.
How can you justify slap bass on a Paul "Fucking" Simon record? It's SO 80s, so bland, so processed.
I can't be doing with this record, or really, Paul Simon in general. Fuck sake, I haven't even had a coffee yet!
Let U be the set of all united sets, K be the set of the kids and D be the set of things divided.
Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D
Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D
- Goat Boy
- Bogarting the joint
- Posts: 32974
- Joined: 20 Mar 2007, 12:11
- Location: In the perfumed garden
Re: Graceland: Masterpiece, politically wrong or both?
I think it's great!
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.
Copehead wrote:a right wing cretin like Berger....bleating about racism
- Count Machuki
- BCB Cup Champion 2013
- Posts: 39534
- Joined: 11 Jun 2005, 15:28
- Location: HAIL, ATLANTA!
Re: Graceland: Masterpiece, politically wrong or both?
Yeah, it's ok.
Let U be the set of all united sets, K be the set of the kids and D be the set of things divided.
Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D
Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D
- Count Machuki
- BCB Cup Champion 2013
- Posts: 39534
- Joined: 11 Jun 2005, 15:28
- Location: HAIL, ATLANTA!
Re: Graceland: Masterpiece, politically wrong or both?
JUST KIDDING IT'S SHIT
Let U be the set of all united sets, K be the set of the kids and D be the set of things divided.
Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D
Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D
- zoomboogity
- Shakin' All Over
- Posts: 5307
- Joined: 17 Jul 2003, 07:42
- Location: Screwball Cultural Center
Re: Graceland: Masterpiece, politically wrong or both?
"Hey man, after I heard fuckin' Graceland, I listened to nothing but African music for A WHOLE MONTH. Well, three days, but it was all in the same month. I went to Armani's the other day and couldn't believe it - 'What do you mean, you don't have any fucking dashikis?' Man, these fuckers are SO behind the times. Ask me anything about highlife - it's the Champagne Of Beers! Before there was ME, there was Paul Simon. Nuff said."
"Quite."
- zoomboogity
- Shakin' All Over
- Posts: 5307
- Joined: 17 Jul 2003, 07:42
- Location: Screwball Cultural Center
Re: Graceland: Masterpiece, politically wrong or both?
"Hey Paul, could you spare a few bucks so Skip and I can get a sandwich?"
"Sorry, Mike, I'm a bit short."
And that's EXACTLY how it happened.
Last edited by zoomboogity on 08 Feb 2017, 16:33, edited 1 time in total.
- Count Machuki
- BCB Cup Champion 2013
- Posts: 39534
- Joined: 11 Jun 2005, 15:28
- Location: HAIL, ATLANTA!
Re: Graceland: Masterpiece, politically wrong or both?
I got Grohled
Paul Simon...what a wanker!
Let U be the set of all united sets, K be the set of the kids and D be the set of things divided.
Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D
Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D
- Fonz
- Posts: 4088
- Joined: 17 Feb 2014, 14:10
- Location: Nevermore
Re: Graceland: Masterpiece, politically wrong or both?
I spent several years thinking that Chevy Chase WAS Paul Simon. Got a shock when a mate brought 'Fletch Lives!' (Great film, btw) round on a VHS.
Heyyyy!
"Fonz clearly has no fucks to give. I like the cut of his Cupicidal gib."
"Fonz clearly has no fucks to give. I like the cut of his Cupicidal gib."
- Matt Wilson
- Psychedelic Cowpunk
- Posts: 32516
- Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 20:18
- Location: Edge of a continent
Re: Graceland: Masterpiece, politically wrong or both?
The best album he made in the '80s.
- nathan
- submitted for your approval
- Posts: 8040
- Joined: 18 Nov 2003, 23:32
- Location: Minneapolis
- Contact:
Re: Graceland: Masterpiece, politically wrong or both?
This photo rarely fails to make me angry:
I'll fuck with some You Can Call Me Al. But yuck!
I'll fuck with some You Can Call Me Al. But yuck!
- bobzilla77
- Posts: 16280
- Joined: 23 Jun 2006, 02:56
- Location: Dilute! Dilute! OK!
Re: Graceland: Masterpiece, politically wrong or both?
It was OK, I guess. Not really my kind of music by 1986 but I heard it, and thought it was OK.
I do think he was clumsy and possibly arrogant about some of his cultural appropriation, as wealthy white folks often are. The Los Lobos story kind of rankled me, I think those guys are wonderful & it's a drag to hear about them getting ripped off. I recall Celia Cruz giving him a load of shit at the time she was on a record of his, saying that she wouldn't have done it if she had known how it was being presented.
But as music, I don't have a big problem with it. I like the video for Betty Call Me Al.
I do think he was clumsy and possibly arrogant about some of his cultural appropriation, as wealthy white folks often are. The Los Lobos story kind of rankled me, I think those guys are wonderful & it's a drag to hear about them getting ripped off. I recall Celia Cruz giving him a load of shit at the time she was on a record of his, saying that she wouldn't have done it if she had known how it was being presented.
But as music, I don't have a big problem with it. I like the video for Betty Call Me Al.
Jimbo wrote:I guess I am over Graham Nash's politics. Hopelessly naive by the standards I've molded for myself these days.