Critically thinking about the corona virus

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
User avatar
Jimbo
Posts: 17762
Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 21:22

Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Jimbo » 07 Jul 2020, 12:49

The Prof wrote:
Jimbo wrote:What other disease is symptom-less?


Where would you like your 'crown of stupidity' sending?


Yeah well ... :oops:

In Conclusion

Dr. Michael Levitt and Sweden have been right all along. The only way through COVID-19 is by achieving the modest (10-20%) Herd Immunity Threshold required to have the virus snuff itself out. The sooner politicians—and the press—start talking about HIT and stop talking about new confirmed cases, the better off we will all be. Either way, it’s likely weeks, not months, before the data of new daily deaths will be so low that the press will have to find something new to scare everyone. It’s over.
https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/07/sec ... ven-close/

But to further my case is this article which was too long and with too many graphs but its conclusion fit right in my pocket.
You don't have to be smart to see how fucked up this shit is. Jimmy Dore

User avatar
Deebank
Resonator
Posts: 24031
Joined: 10 Oct 2003, 13:47
Location: Insanity filled foxhole

Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Deebank » 07 Jul 2020, 12:56

Jimbo wrote:
The Prof wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
I thought this and ranted to my TV about it from the get-go.



Who suggested this wasn't the case?
People can be asymptomatic, we know that.
There's just trouble working out the numbers.


I suggested it. And now this guy does more than suggest calling it stupid.

At the start I wondered how could you have a disease with no symptoms? But suddenly they'd found one? What other disease is symptom-less? I ain't a doctor but I do have a brain and thought then that this is just another layer of horseshit to scare more of us into complying with their horseshit regime.

The narrative is crumbling. I can see more and more how I was right from the start. So were Trump and Johnson. Herd immunity and sunshine were what was needed to defeat this basically flu/common cold like bug. Not to mention the effectiveness of hydrochloriquine and zinc.


You could not be more wrong. Just because you've never heard of it does not mean that every other fucker from here to Tokyo hasn't.
The fact that some people seem to be immune to specific diseases and asymptomatic yet still able to infect others with them has been known for centuries - or at least 100 years or so.
The typical example being the infamouse Typhoid Mary. Fuck me! Her history is widely known about - even outside medical cicles - hence her nickname and notoriety. Perhaps you (and your infallible sources) should do a little bit of reading... Proper reading not some off-grid, conspiracy horseshit!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3959940/
I've been talking about writing a book - 25 years of TEFL - for a few years now. I've got it in me.

Paid anghofio fod dy galon yn y chwyldro

User avatar
toomanyhatz
Power-mad king of the WCC
Posts: 28681
Joined: 07 Apr 2005, 00:01
Location: Just east of where Charlie Parker went to do some relaxin'

Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby toomanyhatz » 07 Jul 2020, 18:16

Jimbo wrote:
Either way, it’s likely weeks, not months, before the data of new daily deaths will be so low that the press will have to find something new to scare everyone. It’s over.
https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/07/sec ... ven-close/

But to further my case is this article which was too long and with too many graphs but its conclusion fit right in my pocket.


From your lips to god's ears.

That would be wonderful. Only problem with it is, it also requires people to act decently, which is not happening in the US or UK, because your "sources" are running around without masks, insisting on going to churches and bars, and screaming in people's faces.

I will say this again and again and again and again and again - there is NO "one size fits all" solution here - we are still dealing with a lot of unknowns, let alone what we do know, which is that symptoms don't always manifest themselves, there are endless atmospheric and climatic conditions that play into it, and it requires some sort of united effort which, in the land where everyone thinks they know better, we're not going to get.

Again - use common sense. Think critically.

If a conclusion "fits in your pocket" chances are it's the wrong conclusion. But of course when the deaths don't go down, you and the Off-(their rocker)guardian folks will simply say "the numbers are bullshit" and you'll hang your "Mission Accomplished" banner while the folks whose lives you consider unimportant continue to die.

And I'm still going to say "fuck that" over and over, and as many times as necessary.
Everyone wrote:
Jimbo wrote: take my advice

Uh....


1959 1963 1965 1966 1974 1977 1978 1981 1988 2017 2018 2021? 2022?

User avatar
toomanyhatz
Power-mad king of the WCC
Posts: 28681
Joined: 07 Apr 2005, 00:01
Location: Just east of where Charlie Parker went to do some relaxin'

Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby toomanyhatz » 07 Jul 2020, 19:37

I will add also, that the guy they choose as an example of "how the governors got it wrong" is from Ventura County - my county.

What a fucking asshole.

He berates the head of the health department for the county for the mask order, but doesn't give a scintilla of evidence for why wearing masks is a problem. Then goes on to say it's not a crisis here because "we're not LA."

No, we're not, genius - we're 50 miles from LA, not as densely populated, and are much more of an "outdoor" culture. So our numbers have been lower. I'd like to keep it that way.

Please tell me, Mr. Medical Expert Who's Probably One of My Neighbors, exactly why having to wear a fucking mask is such a problem that you have to yell about it? This is somebody that has no authority or expertise whatsoever yelling at people for trying to do their job as best they can. In short, the perfect Jimbo "source."
Everyone wrote:
Jimbo wrote: take my advice

Uh....


1959 1963 1965 1966 1974 1977 1978 1981 1988 2017 2018 2021? 2022?

User avatar
Hightea
Posts: 2548
Joined: 16 Apr 2015, 02:18
Location: NY state

Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Hightea » 07 Jul 2020, 20:26

Jimbo wrote: Not to mention the effectiveness of hydrochloriquine


yeap Hydrocholoriquine killing it alright.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-teen-treated-hydroxychloroquine-home-143901969.html

User avatar
toomanyhatz
Power-mad king of the WCC
Posts: 28681
Joined: 07 Apr 2005, 00:01
Location: Just east of where Charlie Parker went to do some relaxin'

Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby toomanyhatz » 07 Jul 2020, 21:48

Now this:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN2482AU

I dread what spin you-know-who is going to give this, but I think the main thing that this proves is that what I said above:

toomanyhatz wrote:Where have the huge outbreaks happened? Indoors, in places with poor ventilation, and lots of exhalation (either singing or continuous talking). So the strategy that's worked - everywhere, that I can see - is avoiding those situations.


is validated by the facts.

Now we may get all kinds of different stories, and we may have different opinions about how to achieve that. But I will say it again. Unless you can prove it untrue, put all your "but the numbers/Fauci/"my sources" bullshit in the bin where it belongs.
Everyone wrote:
Jimbo wrote: take my advice

Uh....


1959 1963 1965 1966 1974 1977 1978 1981 1988 2017 2018 2021? 2022?

Six String
Posts: 20952
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 20:22

Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Six String » 08 Jul 2020, 05:38

Serious question, why does anyone here feel a need to correct Jimbo or change his mind?

User avatar
toomanyhatz
Power-mad king of the WCC
Posts: 28681
Joined: 07 Apr 2005, 00:01
Location: Just east of where Charlie Parker went to do some relaxin'

Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby toomanyhatz » 08 Jul 2020, 06:11

Six String wrote:Serious question, why does anyone here feel a need to correct Jimbo or change his mind?


I can only speak for myself, but as I've said here, I don't. I would love to, but don't think it's possible to change his mind. He's basically said flat out that he's not going to buy in to the "official" narrative regardless of what it is.

As for correction, I guess it's a desire to capture for posterity in case anyone has the slightest temptation to buy into any of it.

All that said, this is a very interesting thread, because in debunking his bullshit I've actually learned a lot, and there's been some very enlightening discussion - particularly when he isn't posting, but sometimes having illogic as a foil helps one to best communicate logic.

This is a thread that should exist, and, credit where it's due, it's perfectly titled (though of course the irony that it hasn't been adhered to on any level by the one who came up with it does not escape me).

A good example is when I brought up COVID's effect on MLB - I thought it was an interesting subject, and I enjoyed hearing players' perspectives.

Jimbo's response, of course, was to assume I was "calling in the experts" (again, the irony is thick), but I was really just interested in their perspective.

Sometimes the stupidity is too much to bear. Sometimes I can't help myself. I don't like to live in it, but I do have something of a combative side, and this thread has served it well. Sometimes I'm just, you know, thinking critically, and so I involve whatever's happening in the thread at the moment in my thought process. That's often Jimbo spouting nonsense, but it isn't always.

In any case, thinking I can change his mind is very far down on the list of reasons why I post to this thread.
Everyone wrote:
Jimbo wrote: take my advice

Uh....


1959 1963 1965 1966 1974 1977 1978 1981 1988 2017 2018 2021? 2022?

User avatar
Jimbo
Posts: 17762
Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 21:22

Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Jimbo » 08 Jul 2020, 06:22

Hightea wrote:
Jimbo wrote: Not to mention the effectiveness of hydrochloriquine


yeap Hydrocholoriquine killing it alright.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-teen-treated-hydroxychloroquine-home-143901969.html


The girl had struggled with a number of health issues over the years, including a rare nervous-system disorder that resolved when she was 5, obesity and an auto-immune disorder, the report states.

But on June 13, the girl developed a frontal headache, sinus pressure, and mild cough. The family assumed they were the result of a sinus infection, the report states.

On June 19, the girl's mother noticed that she looked "gray" while sleeping. The girl was then given an unspecified dose of hydroxychloroquine — an arthritis and lupus drug some, including President Donald J. Trump, have touted as a possible treatment for COVID-19.


:roll:

Always the most outrageous example. Jesus. From what I read one takes a specified dose of the stuff with zinc at the outset of symptoms - or even like Trump - before, as a prophylactic. See, this is a medicine one takes before and during a malarial zone excursion. It won't hurt you. It can help you. This person was fucked up at the start and took the drug way too late and in the wrong dosage - as if that may have mattered. But the ever-reliable and never sensational Yahoo! News goes with FAKE FUCKING NEWS AGAIN!
You don't have to be smart to see how fucked up this shit is. Jimmy Dore

User avatar
toomanyhatz
Power-mad king of the WCC
Posts: 28681
Joined: 07 Apr 2005, 00:01
Location: Just east of where Charlie Parker went to do some relaxin'

Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby toomanyhatz » 08 Jul 2020, 06:32

toomanyhatz wrote:Jimbo spouting nonsense


For example...

Jimbo wrote:FAKE FUCKING NEWS AGAIN!


...as we all know, using a phrase that he doesn't understand to dismiss something entirely factual.

Hey, it didn't take long, and didn't take much brain power. Pleasant enough diversion.
Everyone wrote:
Jimbo wrote: take my advice

Uh....


1959 1963 1965 1966 1974 1977 1978 1981 1988 2017 2018 2021? 2022?

User avatar
toomanyhatz
Power-mad king of the WCC
Posts: 28681
Joined: 07 Apr 2005, 00:01
Location: Just east of where Charlie Parker went to do some relaxin'

Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby toomanyhatz » 08 Jul 2020, 06:38

You know, and then there's stuff like this, that is actually completely untrue, and actually dangerous should any of us be stupid enough to believe it. The good thing is I know we're not.

Jimbo wrote:It won't hurt you. It can help you.


Err...actually it can hurt you. Maybe it can help. So far, the evidence on both sides is anecdotal. Which is why it's being studied.

Yes, the example provided was an extreme one. That's pretty much all we have at this point, being that we don't have any kind of consensus, but rather a series of isolated examples.

Oh, the irony.

Again.
Everyone wrote:
Jimbo wrote: take my advice

Uh....


1959 1963 1965 1966 1974 1977 1978 1981 1988 2017 2018 2021? 2022?

User avatar
Jimbo
Posts: 17762
Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 21:22

Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Jimbo » 08 Jul 2020, 06:42

toomanyhatz wrote:You know, and then there's stuff like this, that is actually completely untrue, and actually dangerous should any of us be stupid enough to believe it. The good thing is I know we're not.

Jimbo wrote:It won't hurt you. It can help you.


Err...actually it can hurt you. Maybe it can help. So far, the evidence on both sides is anecdotal. Which is why it's being studied.

Yes, the example provided was an extreme one. That's pretty much all we have at this point, being that we don't have any kind of consensus, but rather a series of isolated examples.

Oh, the irony.

Again.


Hatz, there are studies which demonstrate its effectiveness. The big "anti" study which was in the Lancet was withdrawn from the Lancet.

It is the cheapness of the drug which is the problem. Drug companies are running this freak show.
You don't have to be smart to see how fucked up this shit is. Jimmy Dore

User avatar
toomanyhatz
Power-mad king of the WCC
Posts: 28681
Joined: 07 Apr 2005, 00:01
Location: Just east of where Charlie Parker went to do some relaxin'

Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby toomanyhatz » 08 Jul 2020, 06:51

Jimbo wrote:
toomanyhatz wrote:You know, and then there's stuff like this, that is actually completely untrue, and actually dangerous should any of us be stupid enough to believe it. The good thing is I know we're not.

Jimbo wrote:It won't hurt you. It can help you.


Err...actually it can hurt you. Maybe it can help. So far, the evidence on both sides is anecdotal. Which is why it's being studied.

Yes, the example provided was an extreme one. That's pretty much all we have at this point, being that we don't have any kind of consensus, but rather a series of isolated examples.

Oh, the irony.

Again.


Hatz, there are studies which demonstrate its effectiveness. The big "anti" study which was in the Lancet was withdrawn from the Lancet.

It is the cheapness of the drug which is the problem. Drug companies are running this freak show.


Again, the good news is there's nobody here dumb enough to take your word for this.

Do a little more research. I'm not finding a single peer reviewed study that demonstrates its effectiveness. Not one. An internet search reveals one of two things - either 'inconclusive' or conclusions that it's not effective.
Everyone wrote:
Jimbo wrote: take my advice

Uh....


1959 1963 1965 1966 1974 1977 1978 1981 1988 2017 2018 2021? 2022?

User avatar
Jimbo
Posts: 17762
Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 21:22

Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Jimbo » 08 Jul 2020, 06:55

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 40-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext

Something fishy. I get a Lancet page with "RETRACTED" stamped all over but copy the link and get the 404 notice.

Nonetheless. From WebMD

The Lancet Retracts Hydroxychloroquine Study

June 4, 2020 - The online medical journal The Lancet has apologized to readers after retracting a study that said the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine did not help to curb COVID-19 and might cause death in patients.
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020060 ... uine-study

Course Yahoo! News didn't tell you this.
You don't have to be smart to see how fucked up this shit is. Jimmy Dore

User avatar
toomanyhatz
Power-mad king of the WCC
Posts: 28681
Joined: 07 Apr 2005, 00:01
Location: Just east of where Charlie Parker went to do some relaxin'

Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby toomanyhatz » 08 Jul 2020, 07:16

Jimbo wrote:The Lancet Retracts Hydroxychloroquine Study

June 4, 2020 - The online medical journal The Lancet has apologized to readers after retracting a study that said the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine did not help to curb COVID-19 and might cause death in patients.
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020060 ... uine-study

Course Yahoo! News didn't tell you this.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Oh my god! Comedy gold!!!

https://news.yahoo.com/lancet-casts-dou ... 53194.html
Everyone wrote:
Jimbo wrote: take my advice

Uh....


1959 1963 1965 1966 1974 1977 1978 1981 1988 2017 2018 2021? 2022?

User avatar
toomanyhatz
Power-mad king of the WCC
Posts: 28681
Joined: 07 Apr 2005, 00:01
Location: Just east of where Charlie Parker went to do some relaxin'

Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby toomanyhatz » 08 Jul 2020, 07:18

If you wrote this script, your continuity expert would say nobody would believe it!! You really need that foot wound treated.

Thanks for the laugh! I needed that!!
Everyone wrote:
Jimbo wrote: take my advice

Uh....


1959 1963 1965 1966 1974 1977 1978 1981 1988 2017 2018 2021? 2022?

Sam Stone
Posts: 1994
Joined: 25 Aug 2016, 17:12

Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Sam Stone » 08 Jul 2020, 09:45

Six String wrote:
Serious question, why does anyone here feel a need to correct Jimbo or change his mind?



Sadly, it's not possible to change the mind of someone who patently obviously doesn't believe
a word of what they're saying and just fills post after post with ill-informed nonsense in the hope
others will then waste their time trying to rebut.

If you don't believe me, check back through how J's arguments have mutated and gone around in
circles these previous 30-odd pages.

Sam Stone
Posts: 1994
Joined: 25 Aug 2016, 17:12

Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Sam Stone » 08 Jul 2020, 09:46

Jimbo wrote:
Course Yahoo! News didn't tell you this.



Funny, it was all over Google and I'm pretty sure it was mentioned on this thread at the time.

User avatar
Rorschach
Posts: 2439
Joined: 02 Jun 2008, 12:43

Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Rorschach » 08 Jul 2020, 11:55

Image
Bugger off.

User avatar
Jimbo
Posts: 17762
Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 21:22

Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Jimbo » 08 Jul 2020, 12:01

Hatz and Jimbo

You don't have to be smart to see how fucked up this shit is. Jimmy Dore