Former President Donald J. Trump

[Snarfyguy]

Here's an interesting thought experiment: what if we examine Trump's conduct and statements from the perspective that he's done nothing wrong with respect to Russia/Putin?

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... tence.html

Spoiler alert: The only other way to account for what he's done and said is a simply incomprehensible level of INCOMPETENCE.

[Jimbo]

Recall the name you gave this thread is "President Donald J. Trump," not "Russia is Blameless in 2016 Election Ratfuckery."

Fair enough. Will you then agree with me that the case for collusion re the election is weak at best?

Recall also that I have often said if Trump is guilty of ordinary quid pro quo corruption - or any other crimes get him. There seems, however, to have been no quid pro quo re the not-built Trump Tower in Moscow.

[Snarfyguy]

Fair enough. Will you then agree with me that the case for collusion re the election is weak at best?

I can neither agree nor disagree because Mueller has yet to make his case. He appears to be building a foundation with the indictments he's brought thus far, but until he either issues his report or gets Trump's kids in a courtroom, we don't know what evidence he has (even then, we might not know, unless we were on the jury).

Recall also that I have often said if Trump is guilty of ordinary quid pro quo corruption - or any other crimes get him. There seems, however, to have been no quid pro quo re the not-built Trump Tower in Moscow.

I personally don't have knowledge of any quid pro quo, but the way everybody on his team keeps lying about not having business interests in Russia, I'm pretty skeptical.

[Charlie O.]

Here's an interesting thought experiment: what if we examine Trump's conduct and statements from the perspective that he's done nothing wrong with respect to Russia/Putin?

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... tence.html

Spoiler alert: The only other way to account for what he's done and said is a simply incomprehensible level of INCOMPETENCE.

Virtually everything he does or has done is such textbook Occam's Razor shit that it drives me batty that people (and not just Jimbo) refuse to call him on it. It's the modern Emperor's New Clothes.

[BARON CORNY DOG]

Lying to Congress* is plenty enough to be a high crime or misdemeanor, I'd say.

*Suborning perjury, I guess I should have said.

Innarestin ... Special Counsel is denying it ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... 4a4611fbc5

[Snarfyguy]

IT WOULD BE rather embarrassing for Donald Trump at this point if Robert Mueller were to declare that the president isn’t an agent of Russian intelligence.

THE PATTERN OF his pro-Putin, pro-Russia, anti-FBI, anti-intelligence community actions are so one-sided, and the lies and obfuscation surrounding every single Russian meeting and conversation are so consistent, that if this president isn’t actually hiding a massive conspiracy, it means the alternative is worse: America elected a chief executive so oblivious to geopolitics, so self-centered and personally insecure, so naturally predisposed to undermine democratic institutions and coddle authoritarians, and so terrible a manager and leader, that he cluelessly surrounded himself with crooks, grifters, and agents of foreign powers, compromising the national security of the US government and undermining 75 years of critical foreign alliances, just to satiate his own ego.

https://www.wired.com/story/president-t ... ent-putin/

[Count Machuki]

Lying to Congress* is plenty enough to be a high crime or misdemeanor, I'd say.

*Suborning perjury, I guess I should have said.

Innarestin ... Special Counsel is denying it ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... 4a4611fbc5

Well, I'd like to cite People vs. Fart and remind you, sir, that "he who denied it supplied it."

[Charlie O.]

Lying to Congress* is plenty enough to be a high crime or misdemeanor, I'd say.

*Suborning perjury, I guess I should have said.

Innarestin ... Special Counsel is denying it ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... 4a4611fbc5

“BuzzFeed’s description of specific statements to the special counsel’s office, and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office, regarding Michael Cohen’s congressional testimony are not accurate,” said Peter Carr, a spokesman for Mueller.

It seems to me that the phrase "are not accurate" allows for a fair amount of wiggle room - even if it doesn't seem so to the other "experts" they talked to. He didn't flat-out say that the report was completely false.

I'm naturally hoping that this is just Mueller's way of keeping his cards close to the vest until he has all his ducks in a row, if I may mix my metaphors.

[Sneelock]

All the best people do!

[Jimbo]

We got him!

Oops, he got away.

For the WAPO to state so openly that Buzz Feed got this story wrong when I and Jimmy Dore and co. have been saying you have pretty much got all the Russiagate stories wrong, welp, you got it wrong again.

[Davey the Fat Boy]

I’ve got Jimbo on ignore, so I’m not seeing his posts in this... but I can just feel them.

It is funny to see the standard of proof he’s looking for to accept that Trump is too cozy with Putin.

If there were whispers that any “establishment” Democrat was too cozy with Wall Street - he’d accept that with no scrutiny at all.

[Jimbo]

I’ve got Jimbo on ignore,

[Sneelock]

I’ve got Jimbo on ignore...

I’m cleaning my bathroom bowl!

[Jimbo]

From the "even if" department ....

Got this from Aaron Mate talking today on the Jimmy Dore "Solid Chat Saturday!" show

From the Buzz Feed story -

The special counsel’s office learned about Trump’s directive for Cohen to lie to Congress through interviews with multiple witnesses from the Trump Organization and internal company emails, text messages, and a cache of other documents. Cohen then acknowledged those instructions during his interviews with that office.

If Trump had instructed Cohen to lie to Congress you'd think he'd whisper the instruction to him but no. There were supposedly multiple witnesses, emails, texts and a cashe of documents which contained these instructions. Really? Trump is dumb but is he that dumb? I don't think so. And shouldn't the Buzz Feed reporters, not to mention anyone else - myself included - who bought this now-debunked story have wondered how that could possibly be? You'd think so but again, no.

[Charlie O.]

There were supposedly multiple witnesses, emails, texts and a cashe of documents which contained these instructions. Really? Trump is dumb but is he that dumb?

It is his way.

[Jimbo]

MSM Begs For Trust After Buzzfeed Debacle

Caitlin Johnstone Jan 20

... The mass media, including pro-Trump mass media like Fox News, absolutely deserves to be distrusted. It has earned that distrust. It had earned that distrust already with its constant promotion of imperialist wars and an oligarch-friendly status quo, and it has earned it even more with its frenzied promotion of a narrative engineered to manufacture consent for a preexisting agenda to shove Russia off the world stage.

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/msm- ... 24518e6aab

Yes, Trump is a lunkhead and a horrible president but the MSM media is supposed to be smart with smart, trustworthy people working there but this RUSSIA! meme has got such a crazy hold of their brains they are acting like morons missing loads of forest because of the trees. So dismiss Johnstone and Dore and Blumenthal at your peril but I am begging you to consider their words and other alternative news sources - conspiracy sites as well - because the MSM is burning you, propagandizing you time after time, 24/7 while the alternative media is doing its best to tell you the truth, or a version that is closer to the truth than any MSM outlet will allow. How about when you check out your MSNBC or NYT or BBC site for your daily news fix you also have a look at Caitlin's site or Moon of Alabama or Antiwar.com or Consortium News to see what the alternative sites have to say.

[Snarfyguy]

The mass media, including pro-Trump mass media like Fox News, absolutely deserves to be distrusted. It has earned that distrust. It had earned that distrust already with its constant promotion of imperialist wars and an oligarch-friendly status quo, and it has earned it even more with its frenzied promotion of a narrative engineered to manufacture consent for a preexisting agenda to shove Russia off the world stage.

Is she on Putin's payroll or something?

[Jimbo]

The mass media, including pro-Trump mass media like Fox News, absolutely deserves to be distrusted. It has earned that distrust. It had earned that distrust already with its constant promotion of imperialist wars and an oligarch-friendly status quo, and it has earned it even more with its frenzied promotion of a narrative engineered to manufacture consent for a preexisting agenda to shove Russia off the world stage.

Is she on Putin's payroll or something?

No, she's a dupe. Dupe's don't get paid though lord knows you deserve a slice of that MIC pie.

... every “Russia bad!” story primes the public to accept increased defence spending, increased control of the internet by the government and increased social media censorship. It is very much the gift that keeps on giving in that regard.

https://off-guardian.org/2019/01/19/buz ... fake-news/

[Jimbo]

Just heard today about this letter from Trump to Pelosi. What do you think? Too snarky?

Dear Madame Speaker:

Due to the Shutdown, I am sorry to inform you that your trip to Brussels, Egypt, and Afghanistan has been postponed. We will reschedule this seven-day excursion when the Shutdown is over. In light of the 800,000 great American workers not receiving pay, I am sure you would agree that postponing this public relations event is totally appropriate. I also feel that, during this period, it would be better if you were in Washington negotiating with me and joining the Strong Border Security movement to end the Shutdown. Obviously, if you would like to make your journey by flying commercial, that would certainly be your prerogative.

I look forward to seeing you soon and even more forward to watching our open and dangerous Southern Border finally receive the attention, funding, and security it so desperately deserves!

[Count Machuki]

Just heard today about this letter from Trump to Pelosi. What do you think?

I think that if you're just hearing about last week's news today then maybe your sources aren't as on the ball as you think they are.