David Bowie vs. James Brown

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The greater artist is....

The Godfather of Soul
35
44%
The Thin White Duke
45
56%
 
Total votes: 80

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Guy E
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Re: David Bowie vs. James Brown

Postby Guy E » 27 Dec 2011, 18:45

bolly boo wrote:to innovate and excite to unusually high degrees and fairly consistently for a whole decade...

It sounds like I'm actually a bigger fan of his music than you are, but this is where we disagree. It took him a while to find his legs and from Diamond Dogs onward the only constant is change.

Expanding the tastes of young listeners with The Berlin Trilogy was cool. He eventually retrenched and had a big hit with Nile Rogers and Bernard Edwards. I won't criticize him for being a chameleon because that's the core of his artistic vision; he's Mr. Post Modern.

But he's no James Brown.
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toomanyhatz
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Re: David Bowie vs. James Brown

Postby toomanyhatz » 27 Dec 2011, 18:47

Guy E wrote:In the end I don't feel the need to credit one artist with "doing for the 70s what the Fab Four did for the 60s." It's only been here on BCB that positioning Bowie in this cultural imperitive has entered my mind and it has the opposite of its intended effect; it makes me more critical of his actual accomplishments.


This is understandable, and lawd knows I have been about as critical of Bowie as anyone around here, but I'm still pretty impressed by how neatly he frames the 70s- his best stuff really does go from '70 to '79 (though I know Solarskope disagrees). That and the fact that he's basically a very talented pastiche artist with an ear to the "underground" repackaging others' ideas for the masses (at least to some degree, though it's unfair to suggest his appeal is this simplistic).

Perhaps that's how the 70s differ from the 60s- it's not people pushing each other in new directions, trying to come up with something new, it's more about trying to stay current in such a way that you appear ahead of the curve. Bowie was pretty good at seeming ahead of the curve, though obviously without the Velvets, Stooges, Kraftwerk, etc., all of whom were really ahead of it...

But perhaps a subject for another thread. But point being, I understand being critical and all, but even with that said, who better represents what the 70s were about, for better or worse? Not James Brown, certainly. Elton John, maybe.

Or for that matter, who pointed so clearly some of the more experimental music of the 80s (a lesson that he taught others, but didn't learn himself)?

He certainly wore out his good will for me, but he also built up quite a lot in that ten year period.
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Guy E
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Re: David Bowie vs. James Brown

Postby Guy E » 27 Dec 2011, 18:48

Quaco wrote:I'm not Matt Wilson. I don't equate things from similar years necessarily!

I mostly meant that my friends and I had mostly understood really basic things like The Beatles and the Stones, but with popular American rock really going from bad to worse, it was clear we had to keep digging for other things, and Bowie and VU back catalogues were the first port of call, especially for anyone interested in being a little weird or dabbling (or at least aligning themselves) with androgyny/punk/drugs.

I understood what you meant... I'd just never thought about what it would be like to discover his music in the rearview mirrow.
["Minnie the Stalker"]The first time that we met I knew I was going to make him mine.

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Re: David Bowie vs. James Brown

Postby Guy E » 27 Dec 2011, 18:50

twomenorahatz wrote:
Guy E wrote:In the end I don't feel the need to credit one artist with "doing for the 70s what the Fab Four did for the 60s." It's only been here on BCB that positioning Bowie in this cultural imperitive has entered my mind and it has the opposite of its intended effect; it makes me more critical of his actual accomplishments.


This is understandable, and lawd knows I have been about as critical of Bowie as anyone around here, but I'm still pretty impressed by how neatly he frames the 70s- his best stuff really does go from '70 to '79 (though I know Solarskope disagrees). That and the fact that he's basically a very talented pastiche artist with an ear to the "underground" repackaging others' ideas for the masses (at least to some degree, though it's unfair to suggest his appeal is this simplistic).

Perhaps that's how the 70s differ from the 60s- it's not people pushing each other in new directions, trying to come up with something new, it's more about trying to stay current in such a way that you appear ahead of the curve. Bowie was pretty good at seeming ahead of the curve, though obviously without the Velvets, Stooges, Kraftwerk, etc., all of whom were really ahead of it...

But perhaps a subject for another thread. But point being, I understand being critical and all, but even with that said, who better represents what the 70s were about, for better or worse? Not James Brown, certainly. Elton John, maybe.

Or for that matter, who pointed so clearly some of the more experimental music of the 80s (a lesson that he taught others, but didn't learn himself)?

He certainly wore out his good will for me, but he also built up quite a lot in that ten year period.

Oh, stop being so balanced and fair-minded.
["Minnie the Stalker"]The first time that we met I knew I was going to make him mine.

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Re: David Bowie vs. James Brown

Postby Bungo the Mungo » 27 Dec 2011, 18:51

sloopjohnc wrote:...always said to myself, "At some time I gotta check out more of this guy's stuff."


Guy E wrote:Expanding the tastes of young listeners with The Berlin Trilogy was cool.


twomenorahatz wrote:he's basically a very talented pastiche artist...


Hopefully he's not reading this - we wouldn't want to swell his head any more, would we? :roll:

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Re: David Bowie vs. James Brown

Postby Quaco » 27 Dec 2011, 18:52

Guy E wrote:
Quaco wrote:I'm not Matt Wilson. I don't equate things from similar years necessarily!

I mostly meant that my friends and I had mostly understood really basic things like The Beatles and the Stones, but with popular American rock really going from bad to worse, it was clear we had to keep digging for other things, and Bowie and VU back catalogues were the first port of call, especially for anyone interested in being a little weird or dabbling (or at least aligning themselves) with androgyny/punk/drugs.

I understood what you meant... I'd just never thought about what it would be like to discover his music in the rearview mirrow.

Aha - yes, though it was the mid-'80s that I really got into him, I knew by the late '70s that I was interested.

Another thing to add to the discussion, my usual comment: Bowie could not have changed at all, for all I care. Simply -- and this is where comparisons with other chameleons break down -- he was a songwriter, one of the best.
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toomanyhatz
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Re: David Bowie vs. James Brown

Postby toomanyhatz » 27 Dec 2011, 19:17

Quaco wrote:Another thing to add to the discussion, my usual comment: Bowie could not have changed at all, for all I care. Simply -- and this is where comparisons with other chameleons break down -- he was a songwriter, one of the best.


This is often overlooked with the superficial visions of clown suits and ladies dresses- he couldn't have pulled off most of what he did were this not so. Even his 80s hits, which I despise, the craft is pretty undeniable. I just stopped liking or respecting his choices.
Footy wrote:
The Who / Jimi Hendrix Experience Saville Theatre, London Jan '67
. Got Jimi's autograph after the show and went on to see him several times that year


1959 1963 1965 1966 1974 1977 1978 1981 1988 2017* 2018 2020!! 2023?

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Guy E
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Re: David Bowie vs. James Brown

Postby Guy E » 27 Dec 2011, 20:03

twomenorahatz wrote:
Quaco wrote:Another thing to add to the discussion, my usual comment: Bowie could not have changed at all, for all I care. Simply -- and this is where comparisons with other chameleons break down -- he was a songwriter, one of the best.


This is often overlooked with the superficial visions of clown suits and ladies dresses- he couldn't have pulled off most of what he did were this not so. Even his 80s hits, which I despise, the craft is pretty undeniable. I just stopped liking or respecting his choices.

I guess I'm alone in seeing a rather narrow window of great work from Bowie. He had the songwriting touch for a while, taking things so far as to give All The Young Dudes to Mott The Hoople... that's possibly his single greatest song. Later albums had the occasional memorable tune, Heroes, Ashes To Ashes, but most of the other titles on those albums struggle to leave an impression.

It's funny how time changes one's perspective. At this point I'd rather listen to Marc Bolan keeping the T-Rex ship afloat with something like Futuristic Dragon than to hear Bowie "pushing the envelope" with Eno and Plank.
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Re: David Bowie vs. James Brown

Postby Count Machuki » 28 Feb 2013, 04:29

What a fun thread. Let's do it again!

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Re: David Bowie vs. James Brown

Postby Hepcat » 28 Feb 2013, 05:12

Dizzley tha Fat Boy wrote:Who do you choose? And how do you justify your choice?


Too tough to choose precisely because I can't justify my choice. Both consummate musicians, and I prefer either to Bob Dylan although I still like Dylan very much.

:?
Last edited by Hepcat on 01 Mar 2013, 04:58, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: David Bowie vs. James Brown

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 28 Feb 2013, 05:32

I used to love Bowie before I got to BCB. Now I want to kick his smug little face in! :lol:
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