David Bowie vs. James Brown

[The Modernist]

the more independent minded are more likely to go for Bowie.

I don't see the independence in anything you wrote about Brown - it's the same thing that's been written in every thread about him since mojo4music started out! "You've got to admit the brilliance... But he invented just one thing. He did it good, but he did it to death" and so on.

Fred I've been into James Brown for a hell of a long time, all those things you've posted I've known about for a good 25 years, I've seen him live..you're not talking to someone who doesn't appreciate him, quite the opposite I would count myself a big fan. Essentially after 69/70 he did have a variant on one style, with the ocassional detour into a slower bluesier number.
The playing on his records was insanely good -Maceo Parker, Bootsy Collins, Fred Wesley and so many more. Brown honed a whole series of bands into something that was both supertight, but also featured dizzying, fluid interlocking grooves. The result was something as muscular and sexual as music has ever got. Far from underrate that as an achievement, I rate it as high as it gets. And as a performer he was probably the best ever.
But if you're saying we should vote for him because of the artistic expansiveness and variety of his music, then I say (if I can use a quaint English parochial phrase) you're batting on the wrong wicket.

[Count Machuki]

To be honest the default vote is for Brown, the more independent minded are more likely to go for Bowie. Not by accident has the most thoughtful post come from Leg of Lamb.
There are good reasons for voting for Brown, but I'm not convinced everyone is voting for him for the right reasons.

On BCB the default is JB? Come again?!

[Snarfyguy]

the more independent minded are more likely to go for Bowie.

I don't see the independence in anything you wrote about Brown - it's the same thing that's been written in every thread about him since mojo4music started out! "You've got to admit the brilliance... But he invented just one thing. He did it good, but he did it to death" and so on.

Fred I've been into James Brown for a hell of a long time, all those things you've posted I've known about for a good 25 years, I've seen him live..you're not talking to someone who doesn't appreciate him, quite the opposite I would count myself a big fan. Essentially after 69/70 he did have a variant on one style, with the ocassional detour into a slower bluesier number.
The playing on his records was insanely good -Maceo Parker, Bootsy Collins, Fred Wesley and so many more. Brown honed a whole series of bands into something that was both supertight, but also featured dizzying, fluid interlocking grooves. The result was something as muscular and sexual as music has ever got. Far from underrate that as an achievement, I rate it as high as it gets. And as a performer he was probably the best ever.
But if you're saying we should vote for him because of the artistic expansiveness and variety of his music, then I say (if I can use a quaint English parochial phrase) you're batting on the wrong wicket.

Fair enough, but I don't think anyone was saying that. Rather, it was simply pointed out that Brown wasn't completely one-dimensional.

[Sneelock]

well, I take my vote back for the wrong reasons and vote for James Brown for the right reasons.
don't let it ever be said that I'm not easy to get along with.

[Count Machuki]

well, I take my vote back for the wrong reasons and vote for James Brown for the right reasons.
don't let it ever be said that I'm not easy to get along with.

JB thanks you.

[The Modernist]

well, I take my vote back for the wrong reasons and vote for James Brown for the right reasons.
don't let it ever be said that I'm not easy to get along with.

JB thanks you.

Funky President -his best? Certainly one of them. I love the way he was really stripping things down at that point..like he wanted to get to the core of the music.

[The Modernist]

Fair enough, but I don't think anyone was saying that. Rather, it was simply pointed out that Brown wasn't completely one-dimensional.

Point taken.

[Count Machuki]

well, I take my vote back for the wrong reasons and vote for James Brown for the right reasons.
don't let it ever be said that I'm not easy to get along with.

JB thanks you.

Funky President -his best? Certainly one of them. I love the way he was really stripping things down at that point..like he wanted to get to the core of the music.

That might be a factor for both artists under discussion. At least for the Berlin stuff, Bowie was stripping back to the basics. Of course, if ever an artist was one for gilding the lily, it was Mr. Bowie. 'Going for the core' is great, though.

[The Prof]

Bowie invented nothing.

Apart from David Bowie of course.

(and that includes Ziggy Stardust)

[Count Machuki]

Bowie invented nothing.

Apart from David Bowie of course.

(and that includes Ziggy Stardust)

I think Andy Warhol might have gotten there first...

[The Prof]

Do you mind expanding on that?

[Count Machuki]

Do you mind expanding on that?

No, not at all.

[der nister]

so its a serial wife beater vs. a bisexual cyclops that both ran tight bands, that had excellent sidemen

Brown got to grow with the eras and influence it directly, Bowie's influence was more subtle. Both aware of image dressed well, both charismatic, Brown's energy more kinetic, Bowie's cooler.

At the time of Bowie's arrival Brown was already a jaggernuat, serious competition to both Motown and the British Invasion. Bowie was still honing his chops, while Brown had notched hit after hit of stunning soul singing.

Both are lauded for avant garde periods which were based on reduction of song form: Brown had the vamp, Bowie had the drone. The introduction of which by each had the effect of closing the door on their previous work and deeming it quaint.

Both aimed for hits on AM radio . Both had two gold singles.

Both had box sets go gold.

Brown's total US sales are around 2-3 million RIAA
Bowie's US 8.5 million RIAA

Context: Steely Dan 11 million; John Denver 32.5 million; Zep 112 million

in the end it comes down to who you enjoy, both are very enjoyable

Brown has a stunning devalued soul (by his funk work)canon that is staggering in its consistency that even without the funk work Bowie cannot touch.

[Count Machuki]

Brown's total US sales are around 2-3 million RIAA
Bowie's US 8.5 million RIAA

Wow, really? Does that take into account the R&B charts?

In Bowie's defense, he was on Soul Train.

[der nister]

Brown's total US sales are around 2-3 million RIAA
Bowie's US 8.5 million RIAA

Wow, really? Does that take into account the R&B charts?

In Bowie's defense, he was on Soul Train.

Yeah I was kinda shocked, that is from roughly 1958 onward I believe, when the RIAA started keeping count.

However, not all companies belong or are willing to do the audit for record sales, King was probably not a member.

Joni Mitchell and ELP are two others with higher profiles than sales.

[sloopjohnc]

Brown's total US sales are around 2-3 million RIAA
Bowie's US 8.5 million RIAA

Maybe Slider was right about Americans' musical tastes.

[der nister]

Do you really mean "2 to 3 millions"? There must be a mistake - how can you sell such a ridiculous amount with so many top 20 entries and number ones?

That is only verified US sales, His record company may not have allowed the auditing needed to verify real sales. This way they didn't have to properly pay Brown.

[Count Machuki]

Do you really mean "2 to 3 millions"? There must be a mistake - how can you sell such a ridiculous amount with so many top 20 entries and number ones?

That is only verified US sales, His record company may not have allowed the auditing needed to verify real sales. This way they didn't have to properly pay Brown.

There are multiple record labels involved. Additionally, many of his sidemen put out records that are JB in every way but in name.

[Count Machuki]

Brown's total US sales are around 2-3 million RIAA
Bowie's US 8.5 million RIAA

Maybe Slider was right about Americans' musical tastes.

Or is Copehead right about the invisible hand of the free market reflecting musical quality?

[Matt Wilson]

Machuki, are you still fighting the good fight?

Forget it. Last I checked Brown was considerably ahead, now the Dame has almost caught up.

Let them all collectively choke on Bowie's member, God knows they deserve it!