'Helpless' vs 'Life On Mars'

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?

H
10
21%
LoM
38
79%
 
Total votes: 48

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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: 'Helpless' vs 'Life On Mars'

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 15 Nov 2017, 21:46

The Modernist wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Interesting how dismissive so many of you are.


It's a plodding dirge Davey.
Why do you think he picked Helpless? JC was being mischievous in taking one of Young's worst songs and putting it against a Bowie classic.


I don’t presume any bad faith on John’s part. I think the notion that it is one of Young’s worst songs is a strange idea that exists only in threads in which St. Bowie’s preeminence is questioned.

Ask any random sampling of Neil Young fans what they think of Helpless. It’s certainly not going to come up often as a bad song, and will likely come up a lot in lists of favorites.
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Re: 'Helpless' vs 'Life On Mars'

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 15 Nov 2017, 21:48

kewl klive wrote:A Man Needs a Maid v Rock n Roll With Me


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toomanyhatz
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Re: 'Helpless' vs 'Life On Mars'

Postby toomanyhatz » 15 Nov 2017, 21:52

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Ask any random sampling of Neil Young fans what they think of Helpless. It’s certainly not going to come up often as a bad song, and will likely come up a lot in lists of favorites.


First part true, second part not so much. I've never met a Neil Young fan who has listed it among their favorites, and I've met a lot of Neil Young fans. It's certainly not in my top 50.

It's my suspicion that his two biggest "hits" in CSNY were done with them because, in one case he thought they could bring something to it that the song needed, and in one case because that's just who he happened to be hanging out with when the event that he had to write a song about immediately happened.

Honestly, without the CSN harmonies I suspect we would have only heard the song on bootlegs.
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Re: 'Helpless' vs 'Life On Mars'

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 15 Nov 2017, 21:56

toomanyhatz wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Ask any random sampling of Neil Young fans what they think of Helpless. It’s certainly not going to come up often as a bad song, and will likely come up a lot in lists of favorites.


First part true, second part not so much. I've never met a Neil Young fan who has listed it among their favorites, and I've met a lot of Neil Young fans. It's certainly not in my top 50.


I put together a benefit show with people doing all Neil Young covers just two months ago. Of the 16 artists booked, 7 of them asked if they could do Helpless. By far the most requested song.
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Re: 'Helpless' vs 'Life On Mars'

Postby toomanyhatz » 15 Nov 2017, 21:58

It's an easy song to do on the fly. It's only got three* chords!

*Oops. Edited.
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Re: 'Helpless' vs 'Life On Mars'

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 15 Nov 2017, 21:59

toomanyhatz wrote:It's an easy song to do on the fly. It's only got four chords!


This separates it from other Neil Young songs...how?
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Re: 'Helpless' vs 'Life On Mars'

Postby toomanyhatz » 15 Nov 2017, 22:01

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
toomanyhatz wrote:It's an easy song to do on the fly. It's only got four chords!


This separates it from other Neil Young songs...how?


Can't think of another Neil song that has no "road map" whatsoever - same chords, repeating pattern. He has other songs that don't have much more than that to them, but that's the only one I can think of that's that simple.
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Re: 'Helpless' vs 'Life On Mars'

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 15 Nov 2017, 22:02

Just to belabor the point :)

I searched “greatest Neil Young songs.” These are the first three results...all ranked lists. I didn’t cherrypick:

#8
http://ultimateclassicrock.com/neil-young-songs/

#3
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.pastem ... songs.html

#10
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/pictu ... ss-0739658
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Re: 'Helpless' vs 'Life On Mars'

Postby The Modernist » 15 Nov 2017, 22:05

Fair enough, I can't help thinking it's because it enjoyed a high profile on Deja Vu. Had it appeared on On The Beach say, I don't think it would be getting anywhere near lists like that.

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Re: 'Helpless' vs 'Life On Mars'

Postby toomanyhatz » 15 Nov 2017, 22:17

The Modernist wrote:Fair enough, I can't help thinking it's because it enjoyed a high profile on Deja Vu. Had it appeared on On The Beach say, I don't think it would be getting anywhere near lists like that.


Yeah, I think I agree with this - it's a very well-known song. I have to say it does surprise me a little, but I think a Neil Young board might vote differently. Looking for one now and can't find it.

I don't hate the song, btw, and I can see how people might have the pov Davey espouses. I totally get what he hears in it. But sometimes you want a single scoop of vanilla ice cream in a dish and sometimes you want a sundae, knowwhatimean?
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Re: 'Helpless' vs 'Life On Mars'

Postby sloopjohnc » 15 Nov 2017, 23:07

Matt Wilson wrote:But the Guns 'n Roses version, right?


:lol:

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Re: 'Helpless' vs 'Life On Mars'

Postby NMB » 15 Nov 2017, 23:09

I’ve never much liked Life on Mars, it’s far too ornate and fussy and there’s not much song underneath it. Whereas I could listen to Helpless 10 times on the bounce. Mostly i’d choose Bowie over Young but not here.
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Re: 'Helpless' vs 'Life On Mars'

Postby Robert » 15 Nov 2017, 23:20

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
toomanyhatz wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Ask any random sampling of Neil Young fans what they think of Helpless. It’s certainly not going to come up often as a bad song, and will likely come up a lot in lists of favorites.


First part true, second part not so much. I've never met a Neil Young fan who has listed it among their favorites, and I've met a lot of Neil Young fans. It's certainly not in my top 50.


I put together a benefit show with people doing all Neil Young covers just two months ago. Of the 16 artists booked, 7 of them asked if they could do Helpless. By far the most requested song.


And easiest to play

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Re: 'Helpless' vs 'Life On Mars'

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 15 Nov 2017, 23:51

Not a selling point for most of the musicians I know.
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Re: 'Helpless' vs 'Life On Mars'

Postby fange » 16 Nov 2017, 00:25

7 - 26.

That is about right, i reckon. A better NY track mind, like 'AtGR', would have been much closer.
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Re: 'Helpless' vs 'Life On Mars'

Postby BARON CORNY DOG » 16 Nov 2017, 00:30

I’m not crazy about Life On Mars and its silly piano, but Helpless is a Neil Young record I’ve always disliked. So an easy vote for Bowie here.

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Re: 'Helpless' vs 'Life On Mars'

Postby echolalia » 16 Nov 2017, 00:50

"Life on Mars" for me.

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Re: 'Helpless' vs 'Life On Mars'

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 16 Nov 2017, 00:57

fange wrote:7 - 26.

That is about right, i reckon. A better NY track mind, like 'AtGR', would have been much closer.


I might have voted for LOM in that one.
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Re: 'Helpless' vs 'Life On Mars'

Postby fange » 16 Nov 2017, 01:02

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
fange wrote:7 - 26.

That is about right, i reckon. A better NY track mind, like 'AtGR', would have been much closer.


I might have voted for LOM in that one.

I still would've too, bit it would've been closer. :)
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Re: 'Helpless' vs 'Life On Mars'

Postby Nervous Ned » 16 Nov 2017, 07:13

I love Helpless. One of Neil’s best.

But it’s no contest. Life On Mars? Beats it easily.


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